Girl Gang Craft Podcast Episode #89 “ ”

Phoebe Sherman interview with Anna-Alexia Basile

INTRO
Phoebe Sherman

Welcome to the Girl Gang Craft Podcast where we dive in deep to all things business, wellness, creativity, and activism for artists and entrepreneurs. We talk with impactful female driven companies and founders for an inside look at the entrepreneurial experience where you'll come away with tangible steps to elevate your business. Are you ready? I'm your host, Phoebe Sherman, founder of Girl Gang Craft artist and designer, and marketing obsessed. We're here to learn together how to expand our revenue, implement new organizational techniques, and cultivate best business practices as we work towards creating a life doing what we love. Let's get started.

Phoebe
Hey. Hey, creatives. Why haven't you called me up? That phone number of hours is (413) 961-0855. Call girl gang craft up. Call us up. Ask us anything. Ask me about craft stuff. You can even ask her out. Like taxes and accounting. And I'll do my best to answer. But maybe we bring in some experts in that to answer questions. But topics that I can answer a plenty about is building community, social media, brand partnerships, building up those conversions, increasing those conversions, increasing website visitors, etc., etc. all small business stuff. I am your girl, so call us at (413) 961-0855 and please tune in to Girl Gang Craft the Podcast.
Welcome back! Today we have Anna Alexia on the podcast. She's a dear friend of mine. She is an Adobe ambassador. We met before we were both Adobe ambassadors actually. She actually spoke at our first ever Girl Gang Craft Small Biz Summit. I think she pitched to speak for us and that's how we first met and became friends. She's taken my photos and then a few times she's taken GGC photos. We have attended that Adobe conference together and talked about small businesses. She also taught for a membership click. I mean, she has been around the GDC community and she is a great resource about all things photography on Alexa. Abseil is a San Francisco based fashion, travel and commercial photographer. She grew up splitting her time between Italy and the tropics of Florida, where warm bodies of water, sunshine and the colorful surroundings shaped her vision. And Alexia has attracted to surreal reflection, monochromatic spaces, crisp shadows and the human form. But most important, her world is ruled by color. In addition to her photography work on Alexa as a public speaker, a global Adobe ambassador, Soho House committee member, and teaches classes on photography, video style, and organization. She has a rad closet You all to her Closet transformation. And for more on her adventures, you can find her on Instagram @annaalexia. Before we hop in to that interview, what is coming around the bend? We just had our Salem event. We are going to have another Salem Craft Fair July 27th and then our first Sacramento event ever, after trying a couple times in 2020 is at the Art Museum August 8th. And that's what Thursday night. And it is a pajama party. So it is a good time and really excited about that. And I'm hoping I personally can come out to that event as well. So kind of meet me in person in my team. I would like to be there. I'm trying to make it work. So come on, come out. And then what else do we have here in the GDC Sea World next week, July 4th week, we're going to skip episodes. We're going to now have a new episode for you all. So take a break, enjoy your time, enjoy your life and we are so excited to be back the week after that. If you miss us, you can catch up on all the episodes. There are some goodies. Literally. I cannot believe that amazing people I've had on this podcast. Like I pinch myself every single day that I get to do this for my job, and I get to talk to really cool people, and you get to hear the wisdom and just unique ways that all of these interviewees look. At their life and how they build their business. And it's fascinating to me, I hope and think it's fascinating to you, and I hope you continue listening. And with that, I will turn it off and we will hop right into my interview with an Alexia.

Oh hello creatives. Welcome back to Girl Gang Craft the podcast Phoebe here with my friend Anna Alexia and she is a fellow Virgo and Adobe ambassador. And we don't just have Virgos on the podcast, but it is been frequent and we will try not to be biased, but Anna Alexia and I have worked together in various capacities for years now. She's taken some of our photos and my personal photos and like I said, part of the Adobe Express Ambassador crew. And we've gotten a couple Max's together. And also she spoke at the first Girl Gang Craft Small Business Summit in Oakland. So I think how we first met. But welcome to the podcast. Hi. Hi.
Anna-Alexia
Thank you so much for having me. I always love being in the company of another Virgo. Yeah.
Phoebe
Me too, me too. Okay, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do for work.

Anna-Alexia
So as Phoebe said, my name is Ana Alexia Basille, and I'm a San Francisco based fashion, travel and commercial photographer. I also do set design projects. creative direction as well, and have been working in the space for, gosh, the last 12 years. So it's been a minute and I love living in San Francisco. I feel really supported by the creative community here, and it's just been really exciting to sort of see how everything ebbs and flows each year, because it seems like work sort of shifts a bit from year to year, as I think is probably pretty common with most people that are freelancers or small business owners.
Phoebe
So, yeah. What kind of clients do you work with?
Anna-Alexia
So I primarily work with, gosh, they're really just all across the board. But some of my favorite clients have been Adobe, as you mentioned. I've also done speaking events with Apple and other projects with them as well. And I got my start with Refinery29, which kudos for those of you that remember what it used to be back in the day. It's a fashion web publication, and I also work with clothing brands. I work with individuals, and I also often get clients. I also often get commissioned to create portraiture work of CEOs, people that sort of are in these really beautiful positions of having a lot of privilege and a lot of power, and finding a way to make them not look boring, and instead sort of show them in a more cool and interesting way.
Phoebe
I love it. So yeah, what kind of like what makes your work special? Like, how are you showing people in an interesting way? What are some of those components that you bring to the table?
Anna-Alexia
I love that question. I think that a really big piece of what makes a great photographer a great photographer. Obviously there are a million things that we can talk about here, but something that I pay really close attention to is being really intentional with sort of helping the client feel really comfortable in front of the camera. So that looks like having a good relationship with them, also being really comfortable posing them. I think that giving a lot of direction is really key, and that's something that I learned from just being in front of the camera just would make such a huge difference if the people that were actually seeing the frame were telling me to, you know, like tilt my head slightly one way, you know, maybe move my forehead a certain direction or, you know, bring my gaze to a certain level. And those are all things that I think one really help the individual has in front of the camera to just sort of look their best no matter what. But it also really instills a sense of confidence in them, knowing that what you're telling them to do is really helping direct the photo in a way that's truly bringing their best everything to light.

Phoebe
I love it, and you are very great at that. So I've had first hand experience, so. But what else you also like, I feel like you bring a lot of color and like architectural elements is all that I've got in the right direction.

Anna-Alexia
Also, you're spot on. So, you know, a really big thing that sort of rules my world is color. It is something that I just sort of stamp build upon. I just happen to end up in a bunch of colorful places where I was taking a million photos, and I wasn't really thinking about the images as a body of work. I was just sort of posting them on to my Instagram feed, and it wasn't until I was able to sort of pull back and look at the gallery of all of the photos together, and recognizing this common thread of color that was permeating my work. And all of the sudden. It was just this light bulb moment where I had been feeling so energized and creatively charged and inspired by the work. But I was really thinking about them as individual photos. And then when I was able to see them in this greater context and sort of pull out and recognize that common thread color was something that I sort of started to seek out a little bit more intentionally. And as you mentioned with, you know, there's also an architectural element and a textural element. I'm attracted to things like really well defined shadows and really just noticing unusual everyday things. But create really interesting moments. I think about light play a lot, which is just anything that's happening with light in the space. It can be a reflection, it can be the way that light sort of, you know, dabbles through the leaves and creates interesting shadows, but just sort of having those moments where you have your eyes really on high alert for the beauty that's happening around you all of the time, and finding a way to incorporate it into the work that you're creating.

Phoebe
I love it, and like, you paint such a beautiful picture with your words too. I'm like, can you like Marina's a bedtime story or something? Or like poetry about small business owners? I don't know, I mean, you can even see if you're watching this on YouTube or on social, like, you can see that your background is gorgeous right now, always in your sweater. You're always so put together with your outfit and your interior. I mean, you've made your beautiful apartment like such a fun set for photos. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Anna-Alexia
Yeah, absolutely. So I moved in to the space with my partner literally right before the pandemic. We we moved in together on March 1st, and it was so funny because we always joke that we were like, yeah, you know, we'll be seeing more of each other, but we'll still have our own separate lives. Like it won't be that crazy of a transition. And then we moved in March 1st I went to Alt Summit, where you were also in Kiki, and I spoke and it was like I was here, you know, for a couple days, went to alt summit, came back for a couple days, and then boom, everything shut down. And we also joke that Matt had a five minute commute to work for like two seconds and then it just totally stopped. And yeah, I mean, it just I feel like everyone has, you know, their crazy pandemic experience. But for me, my work just completely stopped. I mean, it went from 100 to 0 in seemingly no time at all. And it was really scary. And I think that this home really sort of served as this beautiful capsule and canvas for creativity, where I had nothing else going on.
Anna-Alexia But we moved into a space, but, you know, clearly had really great bones, but it definitely needed a lot of work on the interior. And so my partner is an architect and I, you know, do set design. I worked in the creative industry for a really long time. I have a photographer's eye. And so we just put our heads together and sort of went space by space, and we built a bunch of freestanding structures to house, you know, made 14ft long by 12ft high closet that houses an absolutely absurd amount of clothes. And I somehow convinced him to let me put two different shades of pink carpet in different rooms of our house. And it's just sort of slowly come together to be what it is today. And I really feel like it was super important for just our mental health, our bodies, to just have a project to be moving, feel like we were moving something forward in a time that was otherwise, especially for me, really, really, really stagnant and having a creative outlet. And, you know, I also sort of was thinking about it from a business perspective, too, at the time because shoots were happening out in the world, we were really just like it was that time where photographers would like, meet with a model on zoom and they would direct the model and then screenshot them. I feel like you probably remember, I just thought that was so crazy. And it was sort of that was happening. And then people were asking the models to take, you know, selfies of themselves. It was just this really strange period in the creative world. And in my mind I was thinking, well, you know, now that I can't go to a studio or I can't go on location to collaborate with, you know, a team of my peers, at least I can create a really beautiful set in my home. And so a lot of my business during the time was clients sending me their product and having me shoot it here. And that did go on for a little bit, but really quickly I just realized that it was absolutely not working for me because, you know, for those of you that are photographers, models, stylists, set designers, producers, you know that your job takes up so much physical, emotional, financial bandwidth. And, you know, when a client sends you a product to your house, all of the sudden, I was in this position where I was expected to shoot the project, produce a model in it, edit it, clean the set, style it, you know, like build things out and it just people's budgets were so tight during Covid. And I mean, I had to eventually just say to so many clients, I'm already giving you a reduced rate because of everything that's going on. But I am also doing ten other people's jobs and I just like it just was an untenable situation. And some people, you know, were really understanding and we came to an agreement that felt right. But, you know, other people, you just realized really quickly how entitled to your time and your energy they felt, and they just could not understand why. You know, why I didn't want to do those projects anymore. And so I did that for a little bit. Home was really special in that sense. But I think more than anything, the house is just something that sort of brings me daily joy and inspiration and and happiness. I think that I'm obviously a very visual person, and it was really meaningful to be able to wake up and spend time in a space that felt really energetically, positively charged, when everything else that was going on in the world was so uncertain and scary. And so we were really fortunate during that time to have the space as an outlet and to have each other.

Phoebe
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that. There's so much there. But I mean, I totally identify about creating the space. Felt like you want to feel, you know, like cultivating your mood for the room, like in my office. I want to feel energized or whatever. And then in my living room, I want to feel relaxed. I totally get that. And I also get the business sense situation to like, how do we I mean, not only do you write it off on your taxes, right, but like, how can you utilize the staff for both living and for your business? And that's something I totally try to do as well too. Like is the space going to look good for content? Is the space going to look good for, you know, the shoe? Whatever.

Anna-Alexia
Yeah. No, I totally agree. And I think that everyone is really different in how integrated they want their work and their home life to be. And I mean, I think about mat so much because we live together and we spend a lot of time together. But he definitely likes having a little bit of separation, and he has a need to make sure that he's leaving the house every day and that he's interacting with a bunch of other people. And as you know, an Amber where I am extroverted, I do, you know, love interacting with people and being social and out in the world, while also definitely recharging in silence and alone and just in bed. I actually really like to have my home in my work life be really connected, and so having a space that sort of seamlessly worked for both felt right. And luckily, our house is that classic San Francisco shape where it's like thin and really long, and we both work in total. Opposite sides of the house. And so despite his voice being so loud and, you know, carrying very far, it was nice to still be able to, you know, be in the house at the same time and not feel like we were on top of one another.

Phoebe
Are you listeners? I do want to say that, yes, we both have partners named Matt. There's also another Adobe ambassador, Katia, who also has a Matt too. So we all joke about that he Matt closes back. A really unique name too. It's very special. Okay, so what is your work look like today and like what are some ways maybe this is a two parter. What are some ways that you like find clients period. And find clients specifically that are in alignment with the kind of work that you want to be doing? Yeah. So maybe that's three questions.

Anna-Alexia
Well, you know, I think that it's important to name that I've really never done any kind of advertising. I am not like a classically trained photographer. I got my start with an internship with Refinery29. I thought they were just the fucking coolest thing ever. And I was obsessed with everything that they were doing. And before I moved to San Francisco, I would religiously read the off chapter and just would get so pumped about everything. And I had gone to Art Basel one year and really wanted to pass fast to get to you and everything for free. And so I had a friend who is an editor at a magazine and she's super nice, wrote me a letter of assignment and was like, yeah, just shoot a street style article. And I really had never taken photos before or really, like written in that way, for that matter. And so I was able to get this press pass, went to Art Basel, you know, took like a couple shitty photos, wrote a really mediocre article about the fashion. And when I had my interview with refinery, the senior West Coast editor at the time was like, I like you. I want to hire you. Do you want to write for us or do you want to take photos and I was like, I will literally clean the bathroom floor and get copies from people. And the work that I had given her was this article from Basel. And she was like, I think can be a good photographer. And so she hired me as a photography intern, and I was really lucky in that at the time, I was just surrounded by people that had a lot of experience in the industry and, you know, definitely showed me the ropes. And also the team at refinery was so small that a lot of the assignments that I was doing then were things that are really, honestly similar to the type of work that I do today. A lot of the editorial stuff. And so it was just this great formula of being supported and having the opportunity to sort of engage in projects that were just filled with growth. And so that was really how I got my start. And it's funny because I always tell this story that the person that I was dating at the time, who is a photographer, used to jokingly at parties be like, oh, I know the photographer now. And then one day he goes, wait, you actually are a photographer? And I was like, Holy shit, I think I am. And I was in grad school for something totally different. And while I was in school, just started getting a lot of photography work. And so, you know, eventually started my business and I've just never looked back since. It's really sort of created the path that I've been on. And the reason that I tell the story and why I think it's really relevant is because at the time, the features that refinery was having me shoot were very San Francisco centric. And so it would be like the three coolest interior designers that you have to know or like the five best coffee shops or the ten best places in North Beach, or, you know, a lot of it was sort of like people focus, you know, like the stuff that you have to, you know, know about. And so this was just really instrumental for me because it was a really incredible way of connecting with the local community in San Francisco, which has now become my client base. And even if I'm not, you know, still working with someone that I was collaborating with or, you know, had photographed back in 2012, it's kind of like a big tree that just continues growing, and you keep meeting people through the people that you know and making connections. And it just is this really beautiful cycle of growth and support. And so I really I haven't been classically trained as a photographer. And so because of that, my approach to photography is maybe a little bit unconventional or maybe just a reflection of how things work now, used to be that photographers would, you know, go to New York and you'd have a book of your work and you would meet with editors and you'd show them, you know, what you had created. And then if they liked what they saw, they would hire you and bring you on for assignment. And I did that one. And I had this really tiny book. And, you know, looking back on it, I'm like, oh my God, those photos are so shit now, you know, we're just so critical of our past work. But yeah, it was really cool to check out Condé Nast and just be in those spaces. But truly, my clients and my best projects have all come through word of mouth or people seeing my work published somewhere and then reaching out to me and being like, I love what you did here, let's do something together. And so I have never paid for advertising. I think that social media has been a really great form of advertising, especially in this digital age. But I also think that the currency of our industry is our ideas and our personality and the way that we connect with people. And so I think that really focusing on establishing connections with people through shared values, shared vision, a desire to want to create together, that has been the most valuable thing for me and sort of pushing my business forward and finding new clients and retaining the OGs as well.

Phoebe
I love it. Okay, so switching gears a little bit, so what does your day to day look like these days and how do you stay organized?

Anna-Alexia
Oh my gosh. Well I stay in bed for 12 hours. No, no I actually do love being in bed and I probably spend way more time in bed than I should.

Phoebe
But I'm also a bed girly. Yeah, I'm a sleeper-inner.

Anna-Alexia
Yeah, I am too. I'm so jealous of these people that are like, yeah, I don't really need a lot of sleep. Like even when my baby was born, like, it was fine. And I'm just like, if I don't sleep for at least 24 hours, I am a literal lobster.

Phoebe
for 24 hours.

Anna-Alexia
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 24 hours. I did not right. Honestly, no two days are ever alike. As a Virgo and someone that loves routine and like, I like eating the same things. I've been eating the same sandwich for two weeks now, every single day. But nothing else is really the same. I usually I'm also just a really bad example of like how to live your life in general I think because I wake up, I, I immediately try to go back to sleep. I do my best to not schedule any meetings before 11 if I can help it better. If it's not before one. If I'm being totally honest and I wake up, I try to go back and sleep. Then I wake up again. I immediately get on my phone and I sort of like move through my scroll of like responding to any touch or emails. I'm totally that person that like, I look at all of my notifications and then I'm like, okay, I'm going to answer my mom and my best friend first, then I'll get to work. I love just spending time in bed, being awake and not feeling like I immediately need to get up and do something and be hyper productive. And then I try to move my body 4 to 5 times a week. I'm really big on classes, so that is definitely a really big part of my life. And then other than that, I mean, really it just depends on sort of what projects are happening. Sometimes my projects are very photography based, and so that's all digital work. So that's a lot of, you know, pre-production, communicating with the client, computer work, mood board, all that stuff. But then if it is, you know, like a set design project that is moving into the analog world. And so that requires me to obviously be more hands on with the, you know, manufacturing of certain pieces, you know, building things. And so it sort of just depends on what the project is at hand. During the pandemic, I started doing a lot of teaching, and so I teach online classes on things like photography style and organization. Even though I'm really not the most organized person, I just like can explain to the system even though you know, we're not always been best at maintaining them. And so, yeah, like making something really delicious to eat moving, I really try. And again, this is why I'm like, do not do what I do because it's probably not a good idea, but I really try to not put a lot on my plate. Like I would say that in Max, I try to give myself two big tasks a day. I'm a huge procrastinator. I'm late to everything I like, wait until the last minute to do absolutely everything. That's probably my ADHD speaking. But every day is different. It always involves the bad and it always involves waking up and just. I know, I think really, even if I'm having a bad day, I still try to focus on what I really appreciate about what's coming up. So even if there's not something that day that I'm really looking forward to, I really do my best to sort of get things on the calendar that I can look forward to so that even if I'm in a little bit of a ride or, you know, just not feeling my best, or especially when really destabilizing things happen, whether it's work, family, whatever, it's nice to have that little sparkly thing at the end of the tunnel, to be able to look ahead to and just know that there's something really good coming up.

BREAK
Phoebe
Using the link in bio as a call to action on Instagram is a thing of the past. Your customer has to go through many steps to go to the place you want them to. They have to click on your profile, click on bio and if they don't do it immediately, they will forget and they will not click that link.
Many Chat has changed the conversion game for us and tons of other users. Have you seen all these accounts lately using comment below blank and we'll send you whatever to your DMs? That’s Many Chat. We've been using many chat for the whole year, the past six months ish, and our conversion for class signups, rsvps, and our lead magnet have increased so much. Get started with many chat today for free at bit.ly/GGCmanychat That's bit.ly/GGCmanychat. Our current bill is about $25 a month and it is seriously the best tool we use today for our customer conversion aka sales. Seriously, try many chat today bit.ly/GGCmanychat.


Oh I love it. And not to therapize you but like it's okay It's okay for you to do it this way. Obviously you've been successful and I think that's important for folks listening. Like there's not a right way to do everything. And like you can still, you know, pay your bills and like, you know, I think there's also like different seasons of like hustling a little bit and like, you know, and then, you know, having gratitude for the products that you have at hand. And I mean, I think it's beautiful. Your day to day sounds amazing.

Anna-Alexia
And in my defense, our house is like -69 degrees at all times. There's no insulation. And so and we have a heated mattress pad. So the bed is literally the warmest place. And it's also kind of become my office too. Like I really love even just like sometimes I'll just I'll enjoy editing from bed because it's warm, I'm comfortable. And if you're warm and comfortable, it's I feel like I can spend more time making things better, perfecting whatever it is that I'm working on. And also the beauty of photography is that you have an especially for an introvert like me. It's like you have this really great moment where you get to go be in person with, you know, the people that you're working with on the project and you're on set for the shoot and you get to sort of live the magic of the bustle and, you know, like that on that magic that happens and you get to be surrounded by everyone, and then it just stops and I can be at home. I can be by myself. I can really hone in on the work after the fact. It's quiet. And yeah, there's just something really nice about sort of getting the best of both worlds. And even though I love consistency in certain aspects of my life, I love that the client is always changing. It's so special to be able to connect with so many different people and also cycle through some of the client relationships, but I want a good fit. That is something that I think, you know, we're all sort of in the practice of learning how to, you know, separate from relationships that don't serve us or even just not making excuses for people's bad behavior. And it's a lot easier to do that when you enter into a job, knowing that your relationship with that person ultimately is temporary, even just for the sake of the project. And so that's another thing that I really appreciate about this line of work. And if it is a great fit, you come back together and you have a lifelong relationship, hopefully, of creating really beautiful work.

Phoebe
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of my favorite things about running my own business is that ultimately we get to pick who we work with. I mean, not everyone is so privileged to be able to have that. And yeah, I think that's true. Like some of the relationships that you maybe hop on to, like knowing that they're temporary or knowing that they're for a certain amount of time or, you know, maybe even saying no. If you know immediately that it's not a good fit to. I think that's also alright.

Anna-Alexia
Definitely. And I think that it's I think that sometimes it can be really hard to say no in any situation. Here are this really amazing book by Doctor Akilah Cadet called “White Supremacy Is All Around.” And one of the things that I really like that she says in the book, is that it's really important to start getting more comfortable with being uncomfortable. And, you know, there's a lot of context for that in the book. But that was something that really stuck with me, that I think carries on into so many aspects of our life where, I mean, the practice of saying no can be a really difficult one, even though it seemingly is something that only takes a short amount of time and a little bit of effort. But I think that for a lot of people, and especially for me when I say no, I've agonized over it for a really long time, and I've gone back and forth, you know, a million times over the pros and the cons and I think that it's a really beautiful thing to master and to master tactfully. And yeah, I wish that for everyone.

Phoebe
Well, first of all, Akilah has been on this podcast before. Are y'all listening? I don't know what episode. I want to say 40 something, so I'll leave that in the notes. She's amazing, but the no thing I'm like immediately thinking about a client that I just said yes to that I maybe shouldn't have. And you know, for whatever reason, right? The money is not right. Or hello Kitty, Kitty's on the podcast or the money is not right, or like the workload or you just know that there I'm going to be. Maybe there's too many, like checks and balances or something and it's okay to say no. It's also okay to say yes if like you need the money, but like, know that it might take a toll and take all of that like information, right. With like what to do next time when you have that situation.

Anna-Alexia
What are your signs for a no client? Like what are the red flags for you?

Phoebe
I think a lowball offer, obviously, I don't know. It's a gut feeling. It's an intuition thing. Like maybe they've asked like too many of the wrong questions or like had too many demands, or I just get like a weird vibe if I hop on a zoom call or, you know, or in the email, you know, my clients are a little bit different than yours. But I know you also do a lot of, you know, brand partnerships too. So yeah, or obviously for brand partnerships specifically, like it's not a good fit for our audience or I like I feel kind of, you know, I don't know, it's so hard because I think you want to make sure that you're working with, you know, businesses that you believe in. Also, I think it is a cool thing as small businesses to be able to get funds from large businesses, period. I think that's kind of like a really cool, like redistribution situation. I think it's complicated. I think it's a case by case situation of who you're taking money from and what you decide to do with that relationship and how you decide to move forward and like, deal with that publicly also.

Anna-Alexia
Oh, absolutely. And it's something that you said that I thought was interesting was that you said that, you know, one of the red flags for you is when they ask the wrong questions. What are some of the wrong questions?

Phoebe
Trying to not like very specific.

Anna-Alexia
My Virgo is like, who's this person?

Phoebe
I don't know. Well, I think this is an alignment to like trusting the process and trusting what we produce and like knowing our audience the best. You know, I'm cool with brand partners seeing work before we put it on to public. Totally cool with that. I think there is. You know, if there's, like, many, many revisions or if it's like too scripted or if I don't know, I mean, also when there's like FDA stuff and like health stuff like what anyways. And like it can get complicated. It can get really complicated. So I just think it's important to have your wits about you and to trust your intuition and, you know, keep trying your best.

Anna-Alexia
So true, so true. Because we've all had those nightmare clients before where we're just like, what were we thinking? Like, it's crazy because I think some I'm thinking of two clients in particular. That one actually did really fuck me over. And you know who they are and I hate them. But I think there was another one that tried to. But because of the way that I had my contract and my payment system set up in place, they weren't able to. But with the first one that I mentioned that got away with it, there were no red flags for me prior to the project. It felt normal. They were a client that I had worked with before. The work was just so beautiful, like I felt like the project really elevated what I had created and then they just literally didn't pay me. But with the second client, there were definitely things that felt really off about it going into it and things where I think for me, some of the red flags are just recognizing when people are really disorganized. It's fine to be a new person coming into the photography industry and not having, you know, a lot of education around how things work. But I think that there needs to be a willingness to like, understand and be open to the process and also just showing that you're actually trying to set everyone up for success. And they because I had had this really bad experience of the previous client not paying me, I had in my contract set up that they pay me 50% upfront, and then they paid me the rest of it before I delivered any of the final images. So at that point, I think that they paid me the rest of the money. So we were like all squared up. And then when they took a look at the photos, they were like, we really love the images. We want you to deliver more to us, which is actually what had happened with the first client, too. They wanted more photos. It wasn't that they didn't pay me and that was it. It was like they loved the images and they wanted additional photos. And I was like, no problem. But that changes the terms of the contract. So you just have to pay an additional licensing fee, which for those of you that are in the industry, you know, you know, that's a very common practice, industry standard thing. And with the second client really similar, they wanted additional photos. And I was like, that's totally fine. You just it comes at a cost. And I wasn't saying, you know, it's 100 K per image. What I was offering that I was like, you know, you can even set the price like, let's keep it within budget. But out of being an integrity with the industry, I can't give things away for free because then it hurt all of the other creative to do what it is that I do. And they were so mad about it, called me multiple times screaming at me on the phone. I had to put it on speakerphone so that the people that I was with could actually hear them through the phone before I put it on speakerphone. And it just is so crazy because you realize that, you know, your spidey senses are usually pretty attuned. And I had had kind of an off feeling about it, but then I was really happy that, you know, my contract had set me up to not have to, you know, bow down to their demands, not compromise my values. And it was just such an interesting place to be in where I held all of the power, because I had already been paid in full, and yet they were still treating me like shit and still screaming at me, still saying things that were really inappropriate, threatening me. And it was baseless. And so, you know, I think that even, like all of us, experienced something really difficult at some point, whether, you know, you are just starting out or whether you're super experienced, like we all run into these really difficult situations. And for me, it's just been a really big lesson in doing my very best to have an airtight contract, and also doing my very best to just explain to people upfront, you know, what the deal is. And I ended up paying a lawyer to draft up this, like, really insane contract. But ironically, I don't use it because I feel like his verbiage is so difficult for the average person to understand. And to me, it feels a lot more important to have a contract that's written in a way that someone who's not a lawyer can read it and fully comprehend every single aspect of the contract means. And so, you know, my contract is not the one that I paid for, but it is a modified version of my previous one that includes things like late fees, rescheduling fees, cancellation fees, my terms for payment. You know, unless I'm working with a really big company that I trust I don't do, not 30 anymore. It's 50% up front. And then I get paid the rest on the day of the shoot because I had to put in my contract because of that first horrible client, because what ended up happening was that they had the final images, and they ended up putting them up on wheat paste boards all over L.A. they use them for marketing materials. They got so much usage out of a shoot that they did not compensate me for, and it was just horrible. And so in my contract, I ended up adding a line that said something like, you know, the client isn't allowed to use any of the photographs until the fee has been paid in full. And then I was like, why would I even have that line in there when I can just have them pay me in full before handing anything over? And so, you know, sometimes clients are like, you know, it's rare, but sometimes people are like, oh, we like we pay you before we get the finals. And I'm like, yeah, you pay before you leave the restaurant. You know. Like you don't get to leave the restaurant and then like maybe think about paying it in net, you know, net 30 terms and then maybe you pay a late fee. Like it's just so crazy. And it is even crazier when you think about how the people that are under these net 30, net 45, net 60 terms that are often waiting months to be paid, those aren't even big corporations. Those are small businesses. They're single people. And it just really brings to light how far the system is. And so I'm really doing my best with my clients to normalize being paid upfront and under really reasonable terms. That sets the expectation and the etiquette for how we're going to behave in our business relationship.

Phoebe
Yes, yes, yes yes, yes, a couple takeaways. You know, get a contract, you know, whether you hire a lawyer or you get like a contract template online for any sort of client facing work. And also, I think that setting expectations is so important for whatever line of work you're into. I mean, as craft fair event planners too, like we spell things out over and over again and people are still going to not hear or not read or not understand, but then you can point them to where you've laid it out. And I think that's really important. And like thinking about any sort of problems ahead of time that you might encounter and like laying that out everywhere first. And that comes with time and you'll learn and you might have some of those terrible things happen on the other side of things. And we have a lot of small business owners that are like product based businesses or, you know, pain for photographers. What do you want a client to come to the table with? Like, what is a really good client that comes and is ready for a photo shoot with you?

Anna-Alexia
Yeah. Oh, I love that question. So I really appreciate it when clients come to me with a clear idea around what it is that they want, and it doesn't mean that they have to anticipate my questions, but it means that when I ask them, they're actually answering all of the questions. So I get contacted all of the time and ask for a rate sheet. And I always respond to people and I say, you know, I don't have a rate sheet because all of my pricing is custom, because it's tailored to whatever the needs of the project are. And I would never want to under or overcharge a client because we're just going off of some like, arbitrary, predetermined, you know, number or whatever the thing is. And so what I ask people to really get a sense for how to fairly price each project is that I always ask people, how many hours of photography are you interested? How many final images would you like delivered? I explained to them how I work with image delivery that, you know, they get to pick the number of images that we agreed to beforehand for me to color, correct and deliver back to them in high res. You've absolutely heard me like, say this to you a million times for every time we work together. And then I also ask people about usage and usage is, you know, something that not everyone has, like a lot of reference around. And usage is really important because usage means where are the images going to live like, are the images intended for organic web and your organic social media? Or, you know, is this photo going to be on a billboard? And the reason that usage is so important is because those two different use types have completely different prices, right? Like obviously what we would charge as a photography business for an image to be on a billboard or like I've done like bar takeovers or I've had images like in the Tube in London, like that's going to be a completely different price than something that's living organically on a business's social channel. And so usage is another really important thing to ascertain at the beginning of a project, because that's going to be a really big determining factor in the shoot. So those are kind of like the big three. And obviously there are other things that sort of help us get a better sense for, you know, what's going to be required in a project. But it can be really hard sometimes when I ask those questions and a client will say, you know, I'll say, how many hours of photography are you interested in? And they'll be like 2 to 8. And I'll be like, how many images are you interested in? And they're like, well, what do you think is an appropriate amount? And I get it. You know, not everyone has a lot of experience in this type of work. And so, you know, sometimes to me that signifies like, all right, let's have like a clear conversation. Let's set out more clearly what it is that we're doing so that we can establish the timeline a little bit better. But what's hard is when people give these really nonspecific answers and then are like, okay, how much is it going to be? And they're just like, want the quote instantly? And I always tell people, you know, when you're coming to me and you're asking me for a quote, it's really like going to a restaurant and ordering your food. I can't possibly tell you how much the bill is going to be until you place your order, because if you're getting, you know, a plate, a pasta and a glass of wine, that's going to be a completely different cost than if you order, you know, five pastas, you know, four orders of the breadsticks, like ten bottles of wine. And so I really try to get people to be really clear about the parameters of the shoot ahead of time so that when things shift, no one's surprise is if the price changes, right? So like in the case of the two really difficult clients that I mentioned earlier, we had all these factors, you know, predetermined and layout. We had a certain number of images that were being delivered. And so when both of them said that they wanted more or for greater usage, it was really easy for me to go back and be like, hey, this isn't like, that's totally fine. I'm completely willing to work with you. And the price that I gave you is based on these parameters. So now that they're changing, let's just reevaluate the price. And the reality is that, you know, those two clients were really unfortunate and I'll never work with them again. But, you know, the truth is that most clients are really reasonable and get it. And they like for things to be laid out and to be really clear right from the beginning. And so I also recognize that a lot of my work as a photographer is helping to educate clients on a lot of how this works, and I'm not bothered by it. I'm never annoyed if someone's like, what is licensing me? And you know, I'm never annoyed by the questions. I think it's really good to ask them. And I think that it's also really important as a client to come into things and just have clarity. And if there is something that's not clear, we'll be asked a question and say, you know, for the clients that are like 2 to 8 hours, maybe say, you know, like I'm struggling a little bit on the timing, like, what's a good way for us to figure out how long this would be? And, you know, it's also completely fine to ask me what my opinion is on how long something will take, but also expect that that's probably going to involve another conversation. And so a lot of the times I'll say, you know, how many looks are reshooting, how many photos per look are you wanting to achieve? There is basic math that just goes into this. That really is a great formula for answering all of the questions. And so I think that just thinking about that and being willing to be a part of the process to really sort of set out our plan ahead of time is always really helpful.

Phoebe
Imagine that. Like by going through all of that stuff to like the both of you get more clear about what you're trying to do also.

Anna-Alexia
Yeah, and sometimes we also realize that the scope is actually different than what we had originally thought. You know, sometimes people will say, you know, we want this many images. And I'm like, okay, well, this is a two hour shoot. So if we're going to do that many images, that means that I am taking one keeper photo every 20s with no bathroom breaks and no water break. You know, it's just sometimes it's interesting to see how the deeper we sort of look into something, the clearer we are on whether or not it's reasonable. If it's going to change. Yeah.

Phoebe
So you are sort of checking out a new photography industry. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that.

Anna-Alexia
Yeah. So my partner and I proposed to each other last year and we are currently planning a wedding. And it's just been so magical to sort of the more on the inside of an industry that I've always participated in as a photographer. And I feel like there is this weird thing in photography where wedding photography has always been something that has been really looked down upon, like wedding photography, family portraiture. And I say this because I would do like a commercial shoot, and I would really hit it off with someone that was on set and they'd be like, I'm so sorry to ask. And like, I hope this isn't offensive, but like, do you ever shoot weddings? Like, I like, you know, I'm getting married or my friends getting married? I like your vibe and your work. And it was just so interesting because I realized really early on how much sort of like weird stigma there was around weddings and family portraiture. And I think that a lot of people kind of looked down upon that industry with this, like, snobby attitude as this lesser art form, which is crazy, because actually, those are some of the most difficult shoots where you're not supported with a team of a million people, as you are on commercial shoots, it's typically just you and maybe another person, and there's a lot of tact and grace that's involved in being a part of really, like documenting someone's life and not creating something
Anna-Alexia that's meant to sell something. It's really more about sort of creating something that reminds us of an emotion, of a moment in time. And so I remember someone saying to me early on, you know, like only put the type of work on your website that you want to be getting. And so, you know, from the very beginning, I was just so clear on the fashion and the portraiture. The portraiture is just so special to me. I just really love working with people. And so even though I have been photographing weddings for over a decade, I've literally never, ever, ever had any of that work online. And it's funny because a lot of the weddings that I have photographed have been picked up by magazines, and I've gotten a lot of really great press, and as a result, I've gotten a lot of work from it. But I've never actually marketed myself as a wedding photographer. And as I sort of enter into this, I don't know, this new phase of my life, I guess where I'm in my mid 30s, I now have the experience of, you know, planning a wedding. I will soon have the experience of experiencing my own wedding. I just have felt really called and reminded to the beauty and the significance of these moments. And so I'm really excited to launch a wedding photography aspect of my business later this year. And so if anyone wants to reach out to me about their wedding, please feel free. Phoebe and I were talking about this before we started recording and she was like, you know what? What's going to make it? I need to friend. And I think that what is really special with my approach to weddings is that I'm not coming at it from sort of like the classic cheesy wedding perspective. I'm really approaching it from more of like a fashion editorial perspective. So honing in on some of those more quiet, really elegant, chic moments. Also, you know, bringing in the fact that I give so much direction when there's the space to. And just honestly, it's like about making people feel good and look really hot, like no one wants to look back on their wedding photos and feel like anything less then of, you know, total babe. And so yeah, I think that when we have certain experiences ourselves, it makes it easy for us to help other people move through those experiences. And so I'm really excited to, you know, move through this process myself with my partner and, you know, have the experience of the day of and then really take what I've learned and bring it to really make some absolutely unforgettable banger photos of other people on their weddings, too.

Phoebe
I love it. So if you want some banger, wedding photos or product based business photos or photos of yourself for your website or social, or you know, your Tinder profile or whatever, where can people find you?

Anna-Alexia
So you can find me on Instagram @annaalexia. And then my website is just my whole name Annaalexiabasile.com. And there's a link for that on my website as well. And also you said Tinder and we both laughed. But I will say I have a really excellent track record of taking really beautiful photos of people that then go on their dating profiles and then they've found their person. So if you're single and don't want to be single, also reach out to me for some You know I'll photos that you.

Phoebe
Okay, well, this has been so amazing. We'll be sure to put all of those links in the show notes. Definitely follow on on the socials. And like if you go to our website, like so many of those photos are taken by her. And what else? Yeah, shout out to fellow Virgos.

Anna-Alexia
Thank you so much for having me on the show. I always love seeing you and connecting with you.
Phoebe
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us.

OUTRO

Phoebe
Thank you so much for listening to the Girl Gang Craft Podcast. Head to Girlgangcraft.com/podcast for shownotes and more. See you next time.