Can you write copy that leads to major sales without using fear and manipulation tactics?

For Tarzan Kay, the answer is a resounding YES. The copywriter-turned-business owner believes high-integrity marketing that’s anti-FOMO, anti-bro, and anti-racist will become the new status quo for online business—and if her company is any indication, things are on the right track.

This week, Phoebe sits down with the launch whiz and copy queen to talk all things email marketing, copywriting, and ethical launches. Tune in as Tarzan shares her biggest lessons to date from running a successful company (including how psychedelics have served her business) and calls on us all to interrogate our own levels of engagement with “bro marketing”—aspiration marketing that uses short-sighted and self-serving tactics to compel consumer behavior.