Welcome to the Girl Gang Craft podcast, where we dive in deep to all things business, wellness, creativity and activism for artists and entrepreneurs. We talk with impactful, female driven companies and founders for an inside look at the entrepreneurial experience, where you'll come away with tangible steps to elevate your business. Are you ready? I'm your host, Phoebe Sherman, founder of Girl Gang Craft, artist and designer, and marketing obsessed. We're here to learn together how to expand our revenue, implement new organizational techniques, and cultivate about business practices as we work towards creating a life doing what we love. Let's get started.

Phoebe

Hello. Hello entrepreneurs and creatives. Welcome back to the Girl Gang Craft Podcast. Today we have Michele Norris with us. And if you don't know who she is, you probably do. You've probably seen her on your feed. She is so colorful and her content is just eye catching and beautiful. Her styling is gorgeous. I've been following her personally for like a really long time, so it's really cool to have her on the podcast. And also she said she likes the podcast, so we love that. Let's just give a little moment of recognition because this is a 100th girl game. Craft episode 100 episodes. I know it's wild and we were going to do something special for this episode. It is special with Michelle. It's totally special, but we're going to do something a little bit different for the 100th episode and it's been cuckoo bananas over here with the venue switches and the election. So we are going to hope to get you something special for episode 101 next time. But for now, we have the lovely Michele Norris on the podcast and we'll hop right into our conversation with her. But first, of course it's November. It is her then CSM. So I'm just going to do a rundown of our events that are happening. Next up is Sacramento. That's November 16th. So that is at the Sacramento Library Galleria. It is going to be a beautiful event. Is our first big event in Sacramento. We had our small craft fair at the Crocker which was no small energy if you will. And we're really excited for this cafe. This is our first craft fair that we are hosting, if you will, because Crocker hosted us, I don't know, we loved working with the Crocker and hope we can do that again. But for the winter we are at the Library Galleria, so come check it out. I just want to say two before I hop into all the rest of the event. First, 200 attendees at all of our events get a really amazing goodie bag from our sponsors. We design mucho and we have some amazing goodies in there. The goodies are from Culture Pop. They'll be in person at Oakland, Sacramento, Malden, but they'll be in the gift bags for Providence and Salem. Alani new energy bars and gummies. Jenny Lemons, little clip plum and paper stickers, her raw chopstick. And then on the west coast, all the bitters and chichi. So really excited. You're gonna want to make sure that you are the first in the door and the first 200 attendees get the goodie bags, so that is exciting. We love to do this for the holidays. It's a little bit too much for us to do for the spring event as well, but we love to do it for you all for the holidays, so make sure you get after venue early. Okay, so we said Sacramento on November 16th. Next up, Sale Salem November 23rd. And that's in our new venue space, which I talked about in the last podcast episode. And on our socials and on our newsletter. If you don't know why that's happening, because the town double booked us. So we're in a new space with more vendors and that is November 23rd for all the winter events besides Providence. Our 10 to 4 this year, 10 a.m. to four. Okay, next up, I'm just doing this remembering you guys. These dates are ingrained in my brain. Oakland is December 7th. That is a daytime event 10 to 4. That is in our normal Oakland Scottish right 100 plus vendors for that one. We have our patio on the bar. It's going to be a good time as always. And then our evening event that night in Providence on the East Coast at Farm Fresh, that's an evening event from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. and working on getting some fun activations and entertainment for the evening event. And then we're finishing how the year with our Malden event, which is our first event in Malden, and that is December 14th at the Malden Community Slash Senior Center. And we are so excited to have all of these events and offer spaces for vendors to sell their work and offer a place for the community to come and celebrate small businesses and shop from small businesses, and shop intentionally for the holiday season for others or for themselves. So make sure you RSVP to these events are going craft.com/events. All that info is there. If you're not on our newsletter, make sure you join our newsletter. You can find it right on our main page Grog craft.com. And then we also have our holiday gift guide. So if you're not close to any of those spaces and you want to, or the cities and you want to shop from them, own small businesses, we have a gift guide up and it is a shoppable gift guide. And it really kind of gets like passed around in the holiday season. And people share it with their work. They pass it around the company, people use it for seniors or for white elephants, really sharing the love and using it as a way to find small business products that we love. Check that out. That's at Garland Craft. Com Slash Gift Guide. And we really just appreciate you all as we start to wrap up the year. If you have any questions or suggestions, let us know. Send them our way. And let's hop into our conversation with Michelle, who is a, multimedia artist and digital creator. She is half of the photography and art direction team at Tropico Photo and co-owner of space Queen of Vintage Batik and art and events based in Atlanta, Georgia. She is a connoisseur of color and loves to seek out joyful palette. And I really love this conversation with Michelle. Michelle feels so grounded and has a really good outlook on boundaries and sharing her time and scheduling her life and following her creativity. So excited for you all to listen to this conversation and thank you for being here. And thank you for tuning in.

Phoebe
Oh hello. Hello creatives. Today we have Michele Norris on the podcast. Hey Michelle, thanks for being here.

Michelle
Hi, Phoebe, thanks for having me on.

Phoebe
So can you tell everyone who's listening a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Michelle
Yes, I am a multimedia, artist. I own the company Tropico Photo with my partner forest, where we do advertising photography. I also create content for social media on my personal Instagram that is really around mainly sustainable fashion creating art, photography, travel, that sort of thing. And then now for us, I actually do interior design together, and I own a vintage store in Atlanta called space Queen that is also like a hub for events and art.
Phoebe
I love it. You do so many things, which I think a lot of us can relate to, myself included. So let's break it down. First of all, I guess what came first out of all of those things? What was your first project?
Michelle
Yeah, so our first project was Tropico Photo. So forest and I both went to college for photography at the University of Georgia, and when we got out of college, we were sort of unclear about what to do with our photography art degree. The program there is very art focused, which is cool and a lot of ways, but also they were light on the business side, which I think a lot of us noticed after we had completed the program and forest knew some people in Atlanta that were doing ad photography. So we came here and this phrase from he came here and took a job doing like photography, assisting, and got more into the ad world. And I had been assisting a photographer in Athens, Georgia, doing all sorts of things. She was a food photographer, but she was kind of like me, where she had so many different projects that she was working on. So like on a day going to work with her, we could be like arranging flowers. We could be doing props, styling, photography, we could be going on some kind of adventure. So it was great. But after I kind of wrapped up working for her, I decided to come to Atlanta and see what I could do here. And I met a woman who, at a party who was like, you've got great style. Have you ever done styling work? So I started working with it's called the spin style. They are a fashion and pop styling like agency in Atlanta. And so that's what my pathway into ad photography was. And I was doing that assisting. And we both kind of worked doing assistant jobs on set for a couple of years. And then we had use that time to kind of talk about how we could take our art photography that were both very interested in similar things and kind of combine them and make a company where we could make money doing this and work on where art and advertising intersect and like, see if we could take our vibrant, kind of playful style and make it something that translated to that industry. We started doing that together, working on a lot of portfolio projects, and then finally launched Tropico, like eight years ago. I'm like, I don't know, a while ago. So we've been doing that ever since. And then the other things came after that.

Phoebe
I think your photography and your work is so colorful, and it really does have that intersection of art and commodification of the product. Can you talk a little bit about how you guys sort of developed that style, and also where your styles different initially, like how did you develop that style together?
Michelle I think that in college I struggled a lot when we were doing like the first class. You go into as black and white photography, and I was sort of like, maybe I'm just not really cut out for photography, like I thought. And then once we got into the color class, I was like, oh, this is so much better.
So I always felt like my interest lied in color. And maybe that's my inspiration for, like, most art that I'm interested in. And then I felt like forest also has such a great eye for color, but his interest maybe build more from like he's always been more strongly interested in the technical side and what he can do with that.
And I think that for myself, I've always been a little bit more interested in the esthetic side, and we shared a lot of similar interest. We would show each other work that we really liked. So I think we were kind of developing our styles at the same time, like we had those initial leanings, but then we were taking in the same inspiration imagery, following the same artist.
Early on, we discovered JuCo photo, who with an amazing photography team that was doing really colorful ad photography. And so I feel like we were building our voices and also seeing people that were doing more of that artistic photography side at the same time. But then maybe it was when we kind of started testing out things together, but my interests were around, like bringing together colorful and playful sets.
My final project in college was one where I was using all these different multicolor LEDs to light people. So you got kind of like a prismatic rainbow sort of vibe. And for us was doing these very beautiful portraits that had like super rich color because of the film that he was using. So I think that color sort of was the unifier of all the different pieces.
And then the style of Add photography that is really popular right now really started to have this resurgence around the time that we were graduating college. So I think it was a perfect storm of the things meeting what we had been inspired by and then what was actually taking off in the advertising world.
Phoebe What are those early days look like together as you started to develop your business and find clients?
Michelle We were super poor. I feel like we're making it by with assisting, but there definitely was this balance of trying to assist enough to make our overheads work, but then also be using a lot of leaving a lot of time and energy for making personal work. Because my biggest recommendation probably about getting into freelance and getting into a creative industry that you're not yet in, would be that it's so important to make work for yourself that you're excited about and that represents what you think you can do.
And I think that that feels a little bit maybe like a luxury, but I think it's a balanced situation of having something flexible enough to hold you over while you explore and build this portfolio, because even now, the portfolio work that we make in our free time that we do for fun is the work that I think gets clients the most excited, and even gives them ideas about campaigns that they would like to involve us in.
That was really essential early on. Like, what is our voice? How are we showing that? And I think building out your portfolio, making personal work that you're excited about is the most important part when you're getting going and to continue to do so. There was very much this balancing act happening of wanting to say yes to sort of our day jobs and keep that work going, but using any days off, building out mood boards and drawing sets and creating our own work, which was super scrappy.
So we were doing a lot of our sets out of construction paper, and I was really into the idea of making like miniature paper art and we were playing a lot with taking people and doing guerrilla style shooting on colorful buildings around Atlanta, looking for achievable destinations, and then we'd also kind of started picking up an interest in travel, which is ironic with all of the having no money portion.
But I do think that we figured out how to be really scrappy about booking really super cheap flights and things so that we could go places and then work together on personal work there, where we felt really inspired by the location and by the newness, and really just taking walks and looking at the quality of light, using me as a model, using forest as a model.
And that was where we got our start with creating kind of building our voice and creating our signature style. That does rely a lot on this kind of heavy, bright sunlight feel that we saw a lot on our travels and then would recreate in studio here. So I think it was like using all of our extra time to be as creative as we possibly could, and then hoping that through that we would be able to finally launch our brand, get going on Instagram and get a website up.
Phoebe Was there a client that came into fruition that you were really excited about as you started to build your business?
Michelle We worked with so many great local Atlanta brands initially, so it was getting with people who were in this place where they were building their companies and they were big enough now where they had budget for advertising, but it was still that local connection that really got us. And with them, I guess the big first breakthrough job that we had was for Postmates.
That was the first nationally known kind of larger scale production, which was such a crazy learning experience, because at that point we did everything on our set. We would be the photographers, the stylist, we were the producer, we were the PR. We were every potential job was something that we were handling. And then when we got a job of that scale, it really was not possible.
And it was our first time sort of learning to hire out people for different parts of the production, rely on their skills and bring together a team to execute a larger idea.
Phoebe Okay, pivoting a little bit, when did you sort of start your own Instagram account? How did you sort of start to turn the camera around on yourself?
Michelle It's funny, we tell this story all the time because it's so silly, but I took forever to get a smartphone like I was in college and was using like a BlackBerry. Everyone else had an Instagram except for me, and I would look at Instagram on my computer and I would dream of the day I have an Instagram. And then finally.
Phoebe My phone.
Michelle Broke and I found out it was the same price to get like an iPhone or something like that. So in college when I got an iPhone, I was like so excited to have Instagram. And so I was really an avid user immediately. And once I had a way to be on the platform that predated Tropico existing, it was much more casual.
You know, I was sharing photos of things here and there, but it was very esthetically driven, and I think it's hard for me to look at things not that way. So it was just sharing inspirations about my day to day and my friends and that sort of thing. So I was already in the habit of creating things for that, and definitely doing so more as Horace and I were developing this visual language.
But as we were first doing that, we were always just sharing on our personal accounts. We didn't have Tropico account. And during that time, I was like being a lot more thoughtful about what I was sharing. But it really took a turn. I mean, we were using the as a model a lot in the beginning because I was available.
I was always with us. I was down to do it. And then when 2020 happened, that was when it definitely pushed over. Like I'd always been into fashion, that had always been integrated into our imagery. Obviously, I was doing styling work. All the pieces were there, but in 2021 we stopped being able to leave our houses. I felt like a lot more impetus to kind of be sharing things from home, be putting together outfits. Everyone was a lot more, I think, on the internet in general. So I was observing what other people were making, and I think it then kind of started to really take off and definitely be a little bit more on the influencer side than just posting things I was seeing. And then I started getting inquiries about doing campaigns for different brands, doing trades, making work for them. And it's like, because I have this photography background, because I also am in some of the images, because I also have this styling background. I think it all became a perfect storm, that I could do all sorts of different projects for people. There's almost nothing that people would ever reach out for. I was like, that's not within my skillset, which is really fun. But it took off in a way that I definitely didn't anticipate and really became a larger part of my identity was tethered to my own personal Instagram account and me as a subject, rather than just the artist behind the camera.

Phoebe
And then was there a moment where you were sort of intentionally reaching out to brands to monetize, or was that sort of all coming in for you?

Michelle
It was honestly all sort of coming in for me. Now I have an agency that's been representing me for two years called No Logo, and they're actually based in the UK, but they're amazing. I love them and that was the biggest move. Like they pitch for me now. They mainly manage incoming projects that are like reach outs from the other side, but they also do pitch me for jobs and get me work. That was the biggest way that that now happens for me. But the main reason for me to get an agency at all was that I had become, after a year of doing it myself, which was lucrative. I was losing my mind. I spent truly would wake up in the dark and work all day doing a variety of different things, and then be working at night while eating dinner. I was spending so much time negotiating, emailing and working on contracts with people and then trying to also be creative, trying to also create what I was passionate about and getting an agency was something that really happened out of practicality, more so that I was overwhelmed, rather than that I was hoping for more work. So what they did for me really was get me a lot more per campaign, and we started taking on less campaigns. That was sort of the answer there to create balance, and I think that it also helped me to spend more time and energy on each campaign and be more thoughtful about it, because I think one of the things I'm still really passionate about on social media is seeing things that are actually inspiring. They're actually thoughtful. I don't mean actually as like a to negate, like, I think there's lots of fun things on social media that don't have to be the most thoughtful thing in the world. But I do think that I contemplate for myself, where do your interests lie? What do you find stimulating and exciting? Because that can be very different for you than it is for maybe like what you like to passively see from time to time. I felt really good about being able to kind of reclaim the platform in order to make things I was more passionate about and talk in interesting ways about the campaigns. I'm really inspired by people who are able to do advertising for companies that not only are great companies that you're, like, selective about, but also that you make something of quality and that is bringing something to other people's lives. Of course, advertising is about monetization, but I think we're all riding that line of that. Like, you live in a world that is about money. We need money to live. But also how can we keep the focus of that? How can we make sure that it makes someone's day better or inspires them in some way? And that really helped when I was able to pull back and look at things from that lens, rather than saying yes to a million things and kind of running around crazy and being unsure what I was after.

Phoebe
Yeah. So are you pretty selective about what sort of brands that you work with? What does that look like for you?

Michelle
Yeah, I try to be quite selective. If I feel like a brand isn't a good fit, I just say no. I mean, it's another one of those things. I think that I learned to do this a little bit better because of Tropico. We were like, really, really true to our esthetic. So we would get offers for jobs that if they didn't athletically align, it was less so maybe about being selective about the literal client for that, and more so about what we would be creating for them.But for social media, because the literal client is so integral to your speaking for them. I think that ad photography, there's this separation that happens where you're like, we're focused on the art we're making. We're not going to deliver it to people. As part of the ad. So we're really just prioritizing the visuals. I think for social media, I got even more selective because you are endorsing it personally, not just making the art. So it's like multilayered. I think that I want it to be a good fit artistically. Of course, I think that's the whole reason that I got into any of these things. So I think I hold that as paramount. But then when it comes to who I'm speaking for, I think I try to be thoughtful about it. I think that there's times when it's a little bit like, the project is cool. The company is maybe not my personal fave, but this is about their like, new, more sustainable line or something like that. Then I think that there's times when that alignment happens. I think the dream is to always be working for companies that are really super thrilled about and making work you're really thrilled about, and I think that it's always a striving and kind of balancing act to make sure that comes across.

BREAK

We'll take a quick break here to hear from our sponsors. Okay, y'all, with Plum Paper’s Black Friday presale and you can get 30% off sitewide plus a gift with purchase on orders $50 or more through November 15th at plumpaper.com/affiliate/ggc . I just got my plum paper planner in the mail and it is so freaking cute! I am so excited to get organized for my business. You can choose which month it starts. So I chose this December and I can start planning for my busy season. Right now. Plum Paper offers the only fully customizable planner where you can personalize your layout. There are over 50 layouts to choose from, and all layouts can be edited based on your planning preferences. I chose the Ultimate Goal Planner layout and added in personalization like a spot to put what I'm grateful for and my three main goals for each week. You can also add in to do list tabs that are so cute and personalize. All of the planners are made in the US and plum paper is women founded. Get 30% off through November 15th at plumpaper.com/affiliate/ggc to start perfecting your planning for next year.


What is your relationship with social media? I want to hear about if there's any way that you sort of look at your metrics in a healthy or non healthy way, or your time use for social media.

Michelle
Yes, I look at my time use for social media a lot. One thing I love about my agency, that was sort of a selling point when I ended up signing with them, was that they have a wellness counselor on staff that you're able to make appointments with and talk to whenever. Yeah, and he is amazing. And he does a lot of work helping with productivity, helping with mental health. But also a big part of that is like helping creators manage their relationship to social media. So I found that there were times in which I felt like neurotically kind of reopening the app, rechecking how things were going, and that it was really like scrambling my ability to focus on task. And also just like my attention span felt like it was getting worse. I felt like I would talk about that a lot with him. And the biggest things, like I put on a time cap on Instagram, I think I'm allowed to be on there for 30 minutes a day. And then the other thing is that I felt like my main problem was actually like how much I opened the app, not how long I was on there. Like I would open it and then kind of be in it for a minute and then close it and then reopen it ten minutes later. And I've heard this from other people. I definitely know that it can be a struggle, but Jack is his name of the wellness counselor. The thing that he really advised that helped me a lot was just putting physical distance between myself and my phone. He was like, they don't want me to be counseling everyone to do this, but you guys should all just like, turn your phones off during the day. And I'm like, I don't think I can do that. But I do think trying to, like, not carry my phone around with me into different rooms or like when I left the house and realize I forgot my phone, just don't go back to get it. I think trying to be as outside of the world of social media as possible. Which is funny because the whole idea is that you're making things for it. But I think that what I strive for is to use it as a creative tool, the way that I do with other things I think about Pinterest is a great example. I get on Pinterest with a very clear goal. When I go on there, I'm looking for nail art inspiration. I'm looking for interior design inspiration. I'm like sharing something. It doesn't absorb me in the same way, and I always leave more enriched because I went with a reason I found it and then I disengaged. So now I try to use Instagram or TikTok the same way. If I'm going on, it's either to respond to people, to look at the messages, to respond to them, to interact with them, to spend 15 minutes scrolling on purpose to see what people I follow are up to or to post. But there's like no in between. I'm trying to disconnect from the feeling of needing to monitor the results of a post as soon as it goes live, and instead be like in an hour. You can check in and if you want to hide likes, you can. And then that has to be it. So I'm trying to do that. I think also because there's this world where I've had to take stock of is what you want to be famous, or is what you want to be paid to make art. And I think what I want is to be paid to make art. I see Instagram as a tool for that, but there's no need for me to get caught up in just the numbers of it, especially because I have no control over them. Like ultimately. Actually, your podcast is one where I feel like I learn good actual tips on what I can do to improve it, but I think staring at it definitely isn't doing that. And it's hard. You have to keep reminding yourself of that, but in the end, I want the validation to come from being proud of the thing I created, not obsessing over the results of once I shared it, because I've honestly made stuff that I thought was like, not good, that did really well. It's like you don't even get like, I wasn't excited in the end because I was like, I hate that this is the thing that did well, I shouldn't have even put it up here because I only want to be putting out things that I'm really proud of and personally endorse.

Phoebe
So I guess on the other side of things, what do you think makes good content? Oh wow. And we have it.

Michelle
Yeah, I know, I was like, what do I think makes good content that's so interesting? I think that the thing that makes it the best, in my opinion, is when you can tell that it's coming from within. I think that things on TikTok that are meant to play off of another idea, I think that that is an interesting prompt. But my favorite part is when I see someone really take their own spin on it, even if it's creating using a trend to inform how you show something. I'm always inspired to see people showing their uniqueness through what they're making. It is truly inspiring. When I see something and think, I've never thought of that before. I never thought about putting that together that way. I've never seen anyone do this, just kind of bringing something original to it. And like, what is your voice? What is your personal touch? And that's really, I think, what I find the most interesting, I want to know what makes I mean, it's kind of like what makes people artist is what do you bring to the table that's coming from inside of you?

Phoebe
I think what is helpful here, what I'm absorbing is you keep on referencing art, which I think is so important because I think a lot of our community is grappling with this content versus art situation, and also where we're getting value from, like, are we getting value from our own creations and being proud of our work, or are we getting value from these metrics? What does it mean when this may be sort of shitty, or a piece of art or content is perceived by a lot of people? And what does it mean when something that we're really proud of, that we like making, is it? And then how is that all tied in with money? And it's complicated. And I think some of these things that you're touching on with boundaries are really helpful. And this like I just posted today about practicing non-attachment with the metrics, I think it's really key and it's complicated. And I think that there's a lot of intention and discipline that goes into this practice.

Michelle
Yeah, I think so too. I think that it's really tough not to get caught up in the metrics of it and why you need to have some awareness of that. I think, in the ways that it can help you improve things like the times of day that are working or like little hacks about stories like using a poll to like, help with engagement or like when I post the text only box, I tend to get more views. So it's like maybe post that before you post something. You want a lot of people to see. That sort of thing I think can be useful. And then I think there's a whole other huge world that's not useful, which is why don't people like what I make more? Why this post and not that one? Those things are, I think, truly based and algorithmic things that have to do with how long people look at things. What do you look like? What's the light like on stuff that some is changeable, some isn't? But I do think if you're chasing that, you might lose sight of the bigger question, which is what made you want to do this instead of something else? What about this? Are you actually passionate about? Of course, there's this need to make money and be attached to how profitable things are. But I feel like for myself when I think about what has driven the success that I found so far, I do think it's really that I'm making the things that I love. I'm sharing the things that I love, and I think that if I just refocus on that piece when I get really down or like frustrated with Instagram, I find that when I go out and just make something for myself, do a shoot, that was an idea I had for fun, something like that. I tend to feel kind of re-inspired when I'm like, this is why I do it. I have to like this regardless of what the results are. That's a hard thing. But I think it's also sort of in that world of making the portfolio work in order to get off the ground is just believing that if you are really putting yourself into it, if you believe it's something and quality and that deserve to be seen, then that will be echoed back to you in some form. And then sometimes it takes longer. I think that there's so much like instant gratification that we're looking for now read as I post this thing. I hope I'm famous. Tomorrow I post a thing. I hope it goes viral. The concept of going viral is all about immediate gratification. What I've found is that when you're making really quality things, of course there are some brands that will hire you because they think the video will go viral. But there's this other part of the Venn diagram that I think you can't miss out on, which is that they need to feel like what you're making is quality and that you have a voice. So when people lose that voice through chasing too many trends, through saying yes to literally any sponsorship, that sort of thing, you're like losing sight of the whole other piece, which is that maybe you'll get a way bigger project down the line for a company, or more excited about where you get to be more of a spokesperson, because they saw that you had this voice as an artist, this integrity, this quality that you're committed to. And I think it's easier to build towards that kind of thing and know that those opportunities will come when you remain true to yourself, which sounds so like Disney, like remain true to yourself. I think that kind of is it. Otherwise, it's hard to know what you're making or why.

Phoebe
It's so true, I really agree. Let's hear about your latest projects, your new in-person retail store.

Michelle
Yeah, Space Queen was opened in March, and it's in a gas station from the 1920s, and we started renovating it in December of last year. We renovated it for the four months or I guess like five. And now, like I've always wanted to do a vintage store. I love fashion, I became passionate about sustainable fashion quite a while ago. I'd say like pretty early as far as it goes for people, because I was in high school at the point when I felt like this became important to me, partially because my parents did not want to spend any money on me getting clothes from, limited to or wherever. And so I got into thrifting really early on, and I liked how unique the pieces were. And I like had a teacher early on that was really into painting on clothes and stuff. So I felt inspired by those things, which is what really led me into vintage and thrift shopping. And then I felt really inspired by seeing people doing small brands on Instagram, making things, upcycling handmade pieces. And that's a huge part of my own platform. But as far as it goes, I feel like getting more interested in these things. I was like, I wish we had more stuff in Atlanta like this. That was cool. Vintage market, that was these really beautiful, boutique style vintage stores that you see a lot more of in LA. In New York. We don't really have so much of that in Atlanta, and also having a place where I could directly support makers. When we saw this building up for rent for us, and I had actually been looking for an office, which I laugh about, like, leave it to us to like go out looking for an office and find a vintage store art space, office hybrid situation. But it's a very cool building. And I think that the idea really crystallized in the discovery of the building, because it had felt a little bit like a kind of floating around concept. So I would love to have a vintage store one day. We would love to have our own office. We would love to be able to like throw events. And this has a lot of outdoor space. It's got a front area that's so beautiful and that's what Space Queen is. And then in the back we actually do have a large office space. And then we have vintage markets a couple of times a month where we'll have people pop up outside and the shop carries vintage that I source, but then also a lot of local makers, and it was really fun to see some of the relationships that I built through Instagram, through collaborating with smaller makers, now turn into we're carrying their items in the shop and are able to directly support them. So it's crazy that we did that. But here we are and I love having the shop now, and it's a ten minute bike ride from the condo. It's like a really positive and light space.

Phoebe
It's beautiful. And I think you've done a collab with Show You Take Shape Studio before, right? Yes, yes, we have the we're Friends and she was one of the first people that helped me throw one of our craft fairs, because she actually threw a craft fair back in the day too. And then we merge. So anyway.

Michelle
Oh, I love that.

Phoebe
Yeah. She's great. Okay. So do you have a studio there? Are you also taking photos on the space too?

Michelle
We have done one photo shoot back there, but it's really built mainly for like. It's like we had this really large table built that can see it 12 people, for the purpose of doing artist workshops back there. And then I'll go work there during the week, but it's more set up for a little office work and then usually for photoshoots. Most of the jobs have the budget for renting a studio, so we prioritized having a shooting space and move to like wanting to have a space outside of the house to work in, because before. So I actually had our own large studio space for three years and it was great. But a lot of our projects outgrew it and left us to feel like we didn't need to carry that month to month, and rather that we would like to facilitate being like a little bit more efficient working outside of the home.
Phoebe
If that makes sense. So you do a lot of things.

Michelle
Yeah.

Phoebe
What is your day to day look like? How are you balancing all these projects?

Michelle
I think that it's a little bit crazy feeling. I think when Space Queen started, I felt pretty stressed out. I think once we had open, I have two great employees that they're there all the days that it's open. So like I do, sourcing, pricing, that sort of stuff. I'm really involved with coordinating events, with the relationships with vendors, that kind of thing. But they're they're like manning the shop when it's open four days a week. But when it first started, it was like, I never even worked in retail. I was like, I don't know what we're doing. I've really never had employees. We've had contractors, but no one who was my actual employee. So there was a lot to figure out. And I think that the early phase, I was like, we have taken on more than maybe we should have. But thankfully what ended up happening was that a lot of parts of it became more routine. You get better at everything. I think that I'm able to compartmentalize a lot more now, like getting all the space Queen stuff done. And actually, the wellness counselor helped me a lot with getting me on this app called to do is and it's an app where you can just time block your day and your task and categorize them by different groupings. Now I have my Instagram as a grouping. Tropico is a grouping. Personal life has a grouping. Space Queen is a grouping and then our interior design is its own grouping. And really time blocking has saved my life because I think what was going on was actually that the task were not too many to complete. But I think that the mental, the head space it was taking up of being like, which thing should I start on? What should I do right now? Like it really helped me a lot to start using this, because one thing that I saw was that once I was putting things into categories and realistically putting how long they would take, I was realizing that I was scheduling around 12 hours of work every day, and I don't want to do that now. I've moved closer to actually doing more like six hours of work a day, but really focused work. I feel like I'm almost getting more done because there's not this feeling of overwhelm and that the world is falling down on me, and I think I have a lot better of a grasp of what needs to be achieved. And by win and being freelance as I have been, I guess I've never had like a 9 to 5 or like a job with a boss. But being freelance one thing that I have learned is that there's all these in-between weeks, like I'll have these weeks that are like, the world is on fire. There's a lot of stuff literally do. And then there's a lot of these weeks that seem quiet, but really, there's all this work that should be happening during those when you have a little bit more mental headspace, when you don't have a thousand deadlines. And this has really helped me to make better use of those weeks. So to say, like, you have all these long term goals right now and then it's helpful because sometimes I'll be doing something else and have an idea for something, and I'll just go ahead and jot it down in this app, and then I'll assign the time for it later, or a deadline for it later. But it's so that I don't have all this bandwidth I'm using to try to remember what I want to be doing and what was that idea I had. And then when I have one of those weeks that's less active, I look at the longer term goals and I go ahead and make the subcategories of what needs to happen in order for those to become a reality and go ahead and just block time for it so it doesn't feel abstract anymore. It's like from 2 to 5 on Monday, I'm going to make those signs that I've been talking about putting out on the corner to like, point to space, creating something that feels like it's not that hard. And when I start actually blocking time for it, I'm like, how long will this take? Three hours. Two hours to even, then go get it printed. It's like seeing the times in front of me and suddenly then it becomes real. And I know I can achieve it. That has really been the key for me to stay on task and make all of these things work together. And it's also helped me to say no to things, because I can look at the week, I can look at what the current load is with the things that I've already committed to. And I can truthfully say, I can't do that other thing, which I used to never be able to do because I was like, it's cool, I want to do it. And now I'm like, now there's time and space and this just isn't the reality for me.

Phoebe
Yeah, I love time blocking. I do that manually, but I think that's interesting. And I'll check out that app.

Michelle
Yeah it's amazing. I mean every one of my days is different now, but I like start most every day, either going on a run or going to yoga, Pilates. And then I generally now try to have three tasks a day that need to happen so that I can give each of them 2 to 3 hours, because I find that I focus better when I can commit to like just spending longer on one thing instead of hopping around, which I think I used to do a little bit too much. And then I try, if I can, to make the time to time block out the next day, unless I've done like several days in a row. But of course things come up and you have to change plans. But the other thing that's helped me do is recognize, like there are days that will get derailed by things that come up, but now I know where my time went. I'm not like, did that hour get lost on Instagram? I'm like, no, no, no, I have it all blocked out here. And then if something came up that literally had to be addressed, then that's like a waste of time. I don't need to be frustrated. That had to be handled. And then I move the tasks to the next day.

Phoebe
What's your sign?

Michelle
I'm a Taurus.

Phoebe
Okay, Virgo.

Michelle
So okay.

Phoebe
Yeah. Okay. Any sort of last advice that you want to bestow upon creatives? I mean, you've offered a lot of beautiful advice around boundaries and starting out and yeah, taking care of yourself. But anything else you feel like you left out that you want to share.

Michelle
I think that the biggest thing that I would say is for longevity in freelance and for longevity and being your own boss, for creating things yourself, I think more than anything, the important thing is to find out what makes you feel like sparkly and excited and what you care about sharing, creating, doing, and then really focus on that because I think in the changing world of social media, of algorithms, content creators, all of these things, it's really easy to get caught up in chasing what you think is going to have the most immediate results, but I don't know that they are the most long term. I think you need to know, at the end of the day, what your voice is, and in 20 years, do you feel like you will have been happy that you spent the time on this work, or will it feel like a passing post?

Phoebe
Thank you for that. Where can our listeners find you?

Michelle
You can find me on Instagram at Michele Norris photo, or you can find Tropico photo on Instagram at Tropico photo Tropico photo. Or you can follow Space Queen @spacequeen_ATL. And yeah, that's pretty much where everything lives.

Phoebe
Well, thank you so much, Michelle. This has been an absolute treat and it was so fun to talk to you.

Michelle
It was great talking to you too. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you so much for listening to the Girl Gang Craft podcast. Head to GirlGangCraft.com/podcast for Shownotes and more. See you next time.